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Air leak help

This is a public forum to discuss Eagle related technical issues. If you are having a problem with your Eagle, this is the place to find help.
BRUCE
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:41 am
Bus Model: 1970 Silver Eagle Model 05 40 foot

Air leak help

Post by BRUCE »

Bruce from Brazos Diesel Service here.

I have a 1970 Silver Eagle 05 (customer's vehicle) in my parking lot with an air leak (SCREAMING air leak) somewhere around the transmission. I think it may be the main air supply line to the main tank. When I start the bus, the primary system will only build to about 75 pounds and the secondary doesn't even budge. On a big truck like a Mack or Peterbilt, most times the secondary system has a pressure protection valve to open the supply from the main system. Pressure in the main tank reaches a certain PSI, the PPV opens and air pressure flows into the secondary tank. That is not happening on this bus. I have the access panel open in the bedroom and I can hear the leak all the way from the front of the bus, so there is ALOT of air escaping, but I cannot put my finger on the leak. I don't see any frayed fibers on the air hoses I have access to.

Does anyone have an air system diagram for this bus or know where I can get one? Also, how in the name of all that is good and pure in this world do I get access around the engine and transmission other than through those skinny access panels in the bedroom? I'm not a real big boy, but I'm definitely not as skinny as I was when I was a kid.

Any help at this point will be good help as I am without a direction to go.
Bruce Edge
Service Manager
Brazos Diesel Service
979-778-7711
1606 Gooseneck Drive
Bryan, Texas
77808
User avatar
DoubleEagle
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Bus Model: 1975 Model 05 Eagle
1982 Model 10 Eagle
1984 Model 10 Eagle
1994 Model 15-45 Eagle
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Re: Air leak help

Post by DoubleEagle »

Well Bruce, you are in a helluva situation, I'll see if I can help. First off, I have manuals that pretty much cover all Eagle models. The next is identifying which Model 05 you have there. There is a four digit identity number on a welded plate at the rear engine compartment door on the bottom right of the opening, and there might be a Identification plate on the short wall behind the driver seat, or even up high on the left over the driver's head. Failing all that, it would hopefully be on the registration or title. This bus was probably assembled in Belgium. The manuals have different diagrams reflecting changes over time, so you need to know what the serial number is.

There should be four air tanks, wet, dry, auxiliaries. You can not reach all of them in the rear through the four floor hatches, you will have to jack the bus up a bit so someone can crawl underneath. The air drains and the hoses and check valves are all possibilities, but I would not be surprised if there is a hole in one of the two tanks back there. If you can hear it easily, it's a big leak. The auxiliary tanks are up front under the driver's area under the floor. The plate on the front center with the Eagle on it, above the bumper, covers a towing hitch (light pulling only) and a air connection to feed the whole system with shop air.

While you are underneath, you can discover a few other things. The clutch linkage has mechanical rods with an air assist cylinder not too far from the clutch up in the end of the tunnel (floor hatch reveals the top of it). The reverse gear is actuated by a large 12V solenoid by pushing a button on the side panel on the left of the driver while in second gear. If the solenoid does not work, the lever it is attached to can be pulled manually, but must be pushed back to get out of reverse. This can be done from outside the bus with a tool like a hoe or grapple on the drivers side by the drive wheels. The horn might be electric or air, if it is air, it is off the auxiliary tank up front, which has reduced pressure (not 120). The accelerator pedal connection is strictly a mechanical linkage from front to back, originally. A previous owner could have put in a Williams Air Throttle, which is also a reduced pressure item.

Once I have the four digit ID number, I can photocopy the appropriate manual pages of the air system, but the main thing is somebody needs to go down under and explore. It's just like a truck once it's up the air a bit. Hopefully it does not have DD3 brakes, and someone switched over to spring brakes (3 hoses on DD3 cans).
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
BRUCE
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:41 am
Bus Model: 1970 Silver Eagle Model 05 40 foot

Re: Air leak help

Post by BRUCE »

Thanks for the response, Walter.

I think the number you are looking for is 8284. There are no ID tags on this bus anywhere, but the customer supplied that number as the VIN.

The air leak I hear is definitely in the rear. I sounds like someone opened a ball valve on a shop air line. Lots of air, lots of noise, but I just can't put my finger on it from the top, so I will have to go under the bus. Lucky me.

I'll need to figure out how to post pictures so if needed I can post a "WTF is THIS?" pic or two. I've been around big trucks in a shop environment for the last 25 years or so and all that is pretty much standardized across the field, but working in this shop now and having RV's to tinker with, I have had many moments where I was completely baffled by some knudder valve or bio-pnuematic widget assembly attached to a flux capacitor one the second row slide out ejection seat or some such other innocuous something the owner cannot do without. It''s a completely different learning curve and I am living with it as best I can.

I'll try to get the bus moved into the shop and on solid ground so we can get her picked up, then I will crawl my happy self underneath and give it a better inspection.

I will let you know what I find.

Regards,

Bruce.
Bruce Edge
Service Manager
Brazos Diesel Service
979-778-7711
1606 Gooseneck Drive
Bryan, Texas
77808
User avatar
DoubleEagle
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Bus Model: 1975 Model 05 Eagle
1982 Model 10 Eagle
1984 Model 10 Eagle
1994 Model 15-45 Eagle
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Re: Air leak help

Post by DoubleEagle »

You will find that there is nothing super complicated on the Eagle, there are no computers to worry about, it's all mechanical. Things were simpler 51 years ago. Start at the air compressor, check the air dryer, hoses, air tanks. My guess is that one of the air tanks rusted out where the support bracket holds it.
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
User avatar
DoubleEagle
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Bus Model: 1975 Model 05 Eagle
1982 Model 10 Eagle
1984 Model 10 Eagle
1994 Model 15-45 Eagle
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Re: Air leak help

Post by DoubleEagle »

Attached are the three pages of the Eagle Manual dated 06-1971 that deals with serial numbers 7444 and up, for the air system. You can click on the pictures to zoom in for more detail.
Attachments
010.JPG
009.JPG
008.JPG
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
User avatar
DoubleEagle
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Bus Model: 1975 Model 05 Eagle
1982 Model 10 Eagle
1984 Model 10 Eagle
1994 Model 15-45 Eagle
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Re: Air leak help

Post by DoubleEagle »

It's been a while since we have heard from Bruce, so I called him today to see how things are going. It turns out that his main air leak is in the air supply for the clutch assist cylinder where the hose had been rubbing. I promised him that I would send the relevant manual pages that are associated with this area. Here they are:
Attachments
001.JPG
002.JPG
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
davida
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:43 pm
Bus Model: 1985 Eagle 10

Re: Air leak help

Post by davida »

It's good to see that some shops will still work on our birds. Kudos to Bruce for taking time to contact us for help and not give up on the customer.

David
BRUCE
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:41 am
Bus Model: 1970 Silver Eagle Model 05 40 foot

Re: Air leak help

Post by BRUCE »

Image
Image
Image
Image

Hopefully these pics will come through. There is an air hose I need to replace which goes from he red cylinder to what I think is the power cylinder. The air hose is so old and brittle that I can't get it squeezed back up on the hose barb on the bottom of the red cylinder. If anyone knows and can share, I need to know how to get the power cylinder out so I can get the hose off the backside.

This particular job is going to be free to the customer. The previous regime at our shop misdiagnosed this from the start and complained about it being an old motor home. It was "fixed" twice and it's still here unable to move. The technicians I currently have refuse to work on it because it's a free repair and they can't make any hours on it. Me, as shop manager, I am slave labor on a yearly salary, so it falls to me to do the repair. Couple that with our boss not being here to answer phones while I'm face down in the Eagle, and it leaves me unable to complete the job in a timely fashion. This fix should have been done long ago and it agrovates me no end that the only folks I can get assistance from are on this forum.

Thank you for being here and giving the help you can.

Bruce.
Bruce Edge
Service Manager
Brazos Diesel Service
979-778-7711
1606 Gooseneck Drive
Bryan, Texas
77808
BRUCE
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:41 am
Bus Model: 1970 Silver Eagle Model 05 40 foot

Re: Air leak help

Post by BRUCE »

Doesn't look like the images made it.

Back to the drawing board, I guess.
Bruce Edge
Service Manager
Brazos Diesel Service
979-778-7711
1606 Gooseneck Drive
Bryan, Texas
77808
User avatar
DoubleEagle
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Bus Model: 1975 Model 05 Eagle
1982 Model 10 Eagle
1984 Model 10 Eagle
1994 Model 15-45 Eagle
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Re: Air leak help

Post by DoubleEagle »

On your pictures, store them on your computer, click "uploaded attachment", choose file, wait for it to appear, then "Add the file" for each file. Depending on file size, you can load at least three or more files.

On the manual pages don't forget to click on them to blow up the detail. It looks like there might be threaded fittings involved. It might be easier to take the power cylinder off hose and all, and then take it apart, or have parts people look at it. There is nothing sacred about replacing it exactly as it is, just find a hose that works. All of this fun involves laying on the floor, so make it padded and have good lights. I'll see if one of my clutched buses has the hatches not covered with stuff, and take pictures.
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
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