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As of 12/1/2021, a major update of the forum software was accomplished
Contact Information: ... Email: eaglesinternational.email@gmail.com ... Text: three zero three 478-3501
Update 6/13/2024 For the next few days I will be "offline" while I undergo back surgery. Hopefully all will go well with the website and forum. Details of recent problems and reconstruction plans here: viewtopic.php?p=33804&sid=91e6bc9a093a1 ... 303#p33804
Registration is open to the public (*) and free from any cost or obligation. Please allow up to 36 hours for your application to be processed. If you have problems registering, please email me at: eaglesinternational.email@gmail.com
(*) spambots will be deleted -- only legitimate public applications will be processed.
Reminder: the "quick links" menu offers you the best navigation of this forum -- you need to be registered and logged in to see that menu.
Stall speed of torque converter in Allison bus transmission?
- luvrbus
- Club Member
- Posts: 2981
- Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:50 pm
- FMCA #: F262917
- Bus Model: 05
Re: Stall speed of torque converter in Allison bus transmission?
Chris, sorry you don't like the one liners but Jim ask what the stall speed was for his 740 and the 8v71 and I answered him according to info from Eagle when they equipped the 05 with his setup.All of us here do things different most of the guys have 10 speed Eaton Auto shifts behind their 60 series.My 8v92 is not a standard setup I get great fuel mileage about the same as the 60 series have good torque. Right now I am working on having gears cut for my dropbox to have a 3.05 rear gear range, the reason being I want taller gears and keep my boggie's for the Eagle look. I had a new in crate C-15 625 hp Cat engine with the Cx-35 8 speed auto i was going to install in my Eagle but decided not too and upgraded my 92 with the help of a dear friend who is VP of Stewart and Stevenson of South America and so far so good have a good day
- JimGnitecki
- Club Member
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 7:54 am
- FMCA #: 407798
- Bus Model: 1979 Eagle Model 5
- Location: Austin, TX
Re: Stall speed of torque converter in Allison bus transmission?
luvrbus: It sounds liek you are having the fun I wish I could afford to be doing! Maybe once I get a job again, if this recession / restructuring / depression ever ends, I'll be able to do some mods. For now, the analysis via computer and via asking questions is keeping me suitably stimulated in the short term!
Our actual "road mileage" is probably goiung to be only a maximum of 5000 miles per year, so it's hard to justify spending any big bucks even if I HAD the big bucks, but it is nice to make the best use of what you have by knowing its strengths, weaknesses, and capabilities.
I think I'm probably going to have time to play with that computer model tonight, as I will be overnighting at Camping World so that I can get the Splendide XC washer / dryer unit tomorrow. Although the unit is not exactly inexpensive, it IS on sale right now, and we have been selling household furniture to enable fitting into the bus, so we have the cash, and neither of us likes using public laundromats!
Any guesses on 0 to 60 mph time for a 34,400 lb (including driver, full full, and 50 gallons fresh water!) bus with a slightly hopped up 8V71 N and Allison HT740 with 1200 rpm stall converter?
I'm thinking we need to be anticipating TENS of seconds, not seconds as the measurement scale!
Our actual "road mileage" is probably goiung to be only a maximum of 5000 miles per year, so it's hard to justify spending any big bucks even if I HAD the big bucks, but it is nice to make the best use of what you have by knowing its strengths, weaknesses, and capabilities.
I think I'm probably going to have time to play with that computer model tonight, as I will be overnighting at Camping World so that I can get the Splendide XC washer / dryer unit tomorrow. Although the unit is not exactly inexpensive, it IS on sale right now, and we have been selling household furniture to enable fitting into the bus, so we have the cash, and neither of us likes using public laundromats!
Any guesses on 0 to 60 mph time for a 34,400 lb (including driver, full full, and 50 gallons fresh water!) bus with a slightly hopped up 8V71 N and Allison HT740 with 1200 rpm stall converter?
I'm thinking we need to be anticipating TENS of seconds, not seconds as the measurement scale!
- luvrbus
- Club Member
- Posts: 2981
- Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:50 pm
- FMCA #: F262917
- Bus Model: 05
Re: Stall speed of torque converter in Allison bus transmission?
Jim, we are going to fire up a 8v92 today we just installed in a model 07 Eagle with new rear gears also, Van will have some videos with sound for you guys nothing sounds better that a 2 stroke on the first startup.
Clifford
Clifford
- JimGnitecki
- Club Member
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 7:54 am
- FMCA #: 407798
- Bus Model: 1979 Eagle Model 5
- Location: Austin, TX
Re: Stall speed of torque converter in Allison bus transmission?
Yes, the theory is very helpful in planning and designing, but nothing beats the rush of actual hearing it, smelling it, and feeling it RUN!
I'll look forward to that posting.
I'll look forward to that posting.
- luvrbus
- Club Member
- Posts: 2981
- Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:50 pm
- FMCA #: F262917
- Bus Model: 05
Re: Stall speed of torque converter in Allison bus transmission?
This one was tough it is the only Eagle I have seen with the radiator on the passengers side lot of 3 inch copper.
good luck
Clifford
good luck
Clifford
- chrisber
- Club Member
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:15 am
- FMCA #: F138799
- Bus Model: 1984 Eagle Model 10 (As Good As It Gets) #020585
-- Currently powered by DDC 6V92TA, Allison MT740
-- DDC 12.7 L Series 60 (Pre-EGR) and adapted Allison HD 4560
still sitting on special dolly ready to be installed. - Location: El Paso, TX
Re: Stall speed of torque converter in Allison bus transmission?
Hey, don’t get me wrong. I love the smell of Diesel in the morning. I also enjoy the distinct sound of a Detroit two-cycle. These great engines and their corresponding Allison automatics are still used in the ARMY’s M977 Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Truck (HEMTT) -- the primary carrier of the PATRIOT missile system. I have had the great pleasure of having driven them. It feels like they are capable of going straight up a wall carrying a 50,000 lbs radar shelter.
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/eng/M977.html
Be that as it may, I don’t like the present road performance of my coach (DDC 6V92/Allison HT 740, 3.36 rear axle gear ratio). Simply stated, irate truckers tailgating me, trying to pass and throwing the finger while I crawl up the hill is nerve wrecking for me -- so is the weird sensation of having a virtual parking brake applied all the time…
That's why I decided to go ahead with an engine/transmission swap while focusing on the best combination of power and fuel economy. And luckily enough, I was able to acquire a low mileage “pre-EGR” DDC S-60 and Allison HD 4560(P) six-speed (two overdrives). Couldn't find a surplus HEMTT
It was actually a long and trying journey, but I finally succeeded to work out most of the technical problems (and there were many) and now I have the entire assembly sitting on the garage floor on a specially designed and fabricated dolly ready to be installed.
Indeed, we all do things differently. That’s exactly what makes joining Eagles International and this board so interesting and enjoyable.
I still don’t like one-liners, though
Chris
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/eng/M977.html
Be that as it may, I don’t like the present road performance of my coach (DDC 6V92/Allison HT 740, 3.36 rear axle gear ratio). Simply stated, irate truckers tailgating me, trying to pass and throwing the finger while I crawl up the hill is nerve wrecking for me -- so is the weird sensation of having a virtual parking brake applied all the time…
That's why I decided to go ahead with an engine/transmission swap while focusing on the best combination of power and fuel economy. And luckily enough, I was able to acquire a low mileage “pre-EGR” DDC S-60 and Allison HD 4560(P) six-speed (two overdrives). Couldn't find a surplus HEMTT
It was actually a long and trying journey, but I finally succeeded to work out most of the technical problems (and there were many) and now I have the entire assembly sitting on the garage floor on a specially designed and fabricated dolly ready to be installed.
Indeed, we all do things differently. That’s exactly what makes joining Eagles International and this board so interesting and enjoyable.
I still don’t like one-liners, though
Chris
Last edited by chrisber on Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Christian Berlit
El Paso, TX
He who has a why to live can bear almost any how. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
El Paso, TX
He who has a why to live can bear almost any how. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
- chrisber
- Club Member
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:15 am
- FMCA #: F138799
- Bus Model: 1984 Eagle Model 10 (As Good As It Gets) #020585
-- Currently powered by DDC 6V92TA, Allison MT740
-- DDC 12.7 L Series 60 (Pre-EGR) and adapted Allison HD 4560
still sitting on special dolly ready to be installed. - Location: El Paso, TX
Re: Stall speed of torque converter in Allison bus transmission?
Jim, that’s exactly why I became rather appreciative of the technology applied to Allison transmissions.I would add one more dimension to the discussion: heat.
A higher stall speed torque converter generates more heat than a lower stall speed torque converter, because there is by definition more slip.
At first, I didn’t know much and the problem with tainted info from so-called “experts” soon reared its ugly head. So, I began to talk to the hands-on guys of the drag racing world thinking that anyone who can build engines in the thousand-plus horsepower range while successfully putting enormous torque onto the pavement without smoking tires ought to have a good understanding of torque converters.
We have a great shop in this area, namely “Lew's Vinton Automotive” (I hope Lew doesn’t mind my using his name in vein). They are heavily into racing and I couldn’t believe my eyes when I first saw all that advanced “Yankee Ingenuity” stuff! They are, without question, the best machine shop around and an absolute 'wiz-bang' human knowledge base. I learned a lot from Lew, simply because he doesn’t have this annoying case of overstressed self-importance that is so widespread.
Anyway, I am sure you already know that the HT 740 in your Eagle features an automatic lockup clutch that is effective in all forward ranges (or effective in 2nd through 4th range – depending on model). With “appropriate oil cooling” and the use of the Allison TranSynd® Automatic Transmission Fluid [or equivalent meeting engineering specification 295 (TES 295) for automatic transmission fluids], the HT 740 is virtually bullet proof.
This leads me to another post on this board; i.e., Bill Klein’s engine overheating problem after swapping engines from a DDC 8V71 to a Cummins L-10 in the parking lot at an RV park in a few days…
I don’t want to meddle. But, I only hope that his coach features a standard transmission, since the performance parameters (overlapping performance curves) between the two engines (horse power, torque and RPM) are significantly different.
If he has an automatic transmission in his coach and did not change the torque converter configuration, then the higher stall toque ratio that is typically used on a DDC 8V71 will build up increased heat when it is bolted to a four-cycle engine that develops maximum torque at a much lower RPM range (so I thought...) And since there is probably a liquid-to-liquid heat exchanger that dissipates transmission heat into the engine's cooling loop, it can therefore contribute to the overheating problem.
Chris
Last edited by chrisber on Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Christian Berlit
El Paso, TX
He who has a why to live can bear almost any how. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
El Paso, TX
He who has a why to live can bear almost any how. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
- chrisber
- Club Member
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:15 am
- FMCA #: F138799
- Bus Model: 1984 Eagle Model 10 (As Good As It Gets) #020585
-- Currently powered by DDC 6V92TA, Allison MT740
-- DDC 12.7 L Series 60 (Pre-EGR) and adapted Allison HD 4560
still sitting on special dolly ready to be installed. - Location: El Paso, TX
Re: Stall speed of torque converter in Allison bus transmission?
Now, that has got me thinking Thanks, luvrbus, for mentioning that there are people in your area who can cut gears for different drop-box ratios. That’s one task no one wants to tackle here.Right now I am working on having gears cut for my dropbox to have a 3.05 rear gear range, the reason being I want taller gears and keep my boggie's for the Eagle look.
When you followed the threads, you probably noticed that my coach currently has a 3.36 rear axle gear ratio. I have been able to buy a new ring and pinion set that will yield a 4.11 ratio. I will have to install it soon, because my new transmission features two overdrives:
First……….4.70:1
Second…..2.21:1
Third.......1.53:1
Fourth.....1.00:1
Fifth........0.76:1
Sixth.......0.67:1
Reverse….5.55:1
As y’all painfully know, dropping the “drop-box” and disassembling an Eagle’s drive axle and differential gears is not for the faint at heart. And removing and replacing the ring and pinion gears requires vast experience and unsurprisingly involves risks of personal injury.
So I thought: “Wouldn’t it be easier to change the current 1:1 gear ratio of my drop-box to an 1:0.75 “under-drive” that would yield an equivalent 4.11:1 rear-end ratio?” Swapping the drop box gears with a higher quality set may also reduce the probability of stress-related failure when a higher output engine is used.
What’s your opinion?
Thanks, Chris
Christian Berlit
El Paso, TX
He who has a why to live can bear almost any how. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
El Paso, TX
He who has a why to live can bear almost any how. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
-
- Club Member
- Posts: 1437
- Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:35 pm
Re: Stall speed of torque converter in Allison bus transmission?
Clifford ,Here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu-uvRt1vWI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu-uvRt1vWI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by van on Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Dreamscape
- Posts: 3046
- Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:03 pm
- FMCA #: F391238
- Bus Model: 1968 Silver Eagle Model 01
- Location: Full Timing - On The Road
Re: Stall speed of torque converter in Allison bus transmission?
What a Great Sound! Don't ya just love it!
Nothing like the sound of a Detroit.......Period!
Good Job Clifford!
~Paul~
Nothing like the sound of a Detroit.......Period!
Good Job Clifford!
~Paul~
Paul Lawry
Dreamscape
1968 Eagle 01 #7443
Silver 8V92 HT 740
Dreamscape Build Blog: https://dreamscapesilvereagle.wordpress.com/
Dreamscape
1968 Eagle 01 #7443
Silver 8V92 HT 740
Dreamscape Build Blog: https://dreamscapesilvereagle.wordpress.com/