Announcement Block
As of 12/1/2021, a major update of the forum software was accomplished

Update: 3/7/2024: The Eagles email account at GoDaddy no longer works. I have set up a gmail account as a workaround: eaglesinternational.email at gmail.com

Registration is open to the public (*) and free from any cost or obligation. Please allow up to 36 hours for your application to be processed. If you have problems registering, please email me at: eaglesinternational.email at gmail.com
(*) spambots will be deleted -- only legitimate public applications will be processed.

Reminder: the "quick links" menu offers you the best navigation of this forum -- you need to be registered and logged in to see that menu.

I'm new around here and have some questions

This is a public forum for the discussion of all things Eagle. Whether it be an upcoming Eagles International event or the history of Silver Eagle. Trolling or spamming will not be tolerated.
User avatar
beltguy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2663
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:39 am
FMCA #: F246286
Bus Model: 1985 Eagle 10 with Series 60 and Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission (SOLD)
Location: Evergreen, CO
Contact:

Re: I'm new around here and have some questions

Post by beltguy »

There has been a discussion of fitting a larger transmission in an Eagle. My autoshift is a RTAO 16710C AS which means that it is about as large of a mechanical transmission as there is on the market (1600 ft lb torque rating. I don't recall any significant problem with interference with the frame. If it was major, I would have had to do some fabrication and I am fairly certain that was not the case.

Concerning the gearing for a four stroke, I cover that in some detail in the article I wrote for Bus Conversions Magazine. That article is posted in the articles section of the website as noted earlier. Four strokes are designed to operate at about 30% slower than two stoke engine. Generally they like to run about 1300-1500 RPM at cruising speed. An Eagle with 11 24.5 tires and 3.73 rear end runs about 2100 at 72 MPH. You can see that that is way too fast for a four stroke if you tend to cruise at 70 MPH or so.

Some folks go with an HT740 (1:1 top gear) and a 3.36 rear ratio but that only gains you about 10% lower RPM as opposed to the desired 30%. The 3.36 gears work well if you tend to cruise around 60-65 MPH. BTW, I am not sure if the 3.36 gears are still available. At one time Jefferson Bus (now out of business) had a special run made. I am not sure what happened to that inventory.

As an added note, because of the dropbox in the 05 10 and 15 models, the pinion gear is unique and the gears are hard to find.

Jim
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission SOLD
2005 Dodge 2500 with 5.9 Cummins and 6 speed manual 2022 Sunset 28 foot trailer
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: https://beltguy.com/Travelogue/
Email: eaglesinternational.email at gmail.com   NOTE this email box is only for general correspondence related to the forum and not technical advice.  Technical questions will not receive a response.
User avatar
DoubleEagle
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Bus Model: 1975 Model 05 Eagle
1982 Model 10 Eagle
1984 Model 10 Eagle
1994 Model 15-45 Eagle
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Re: I'm new around here and have some questions

Post by DoubleEagle »

Mason,

I'm not sure what my axle ratio is on the Model 15, but I suspect it is the higher one (3.36). When I drove it 700 miles to get it home, I was passing trucks that were probably going 70 with room to spare. There is no tachometer, and I don't have a Silverleaf hooked up yet, but I plan to. Whatever it is, it is. The 5 or 6 speed will be more economical, but not if you have to pay to have it overhauled.

Jim,

On your Eagle you had a Voith transmission, if I remember correctly, which explains why you had room for the 10 speed. If it had been a Spicer 4 speed the opening would not have been enough space for a 5 speed manual or a Allison on a Model 05, and maybe the early Model 10's. Maybe at some point Eagle widened the area on all models to make it roomy enough for whatever trans went in. My Model 05 definitely has a tight space around the transmission.

In my Model 15 manual, they list the horsepower ratings for the 6V92, 8V92, and Series 60 as being at 2100 rpm, each. We know the 2 cycle is happier revving more, but the Series 60 can run higher, if need be. Certainly the economy would greater at lower rpm's. I hope we are not confusing Greg, he is getting so much to consider, I'm afraid his head is going to blow. :shock:
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
Greg in Colorado
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:21 am

Re: I'm new around here and have some questions

Post by Greg in Colorado »

Walter, My head is still intact, but the inner-cranial pressure it certainly getting up there :shock:
Actually I enjoy gearing theory, etc. I read Jim's article from BCM the other night and got a lot from it. I liked the chart showing road speed vs diff gears and transmissions. Very helpful.

Mason, thanks for the transmission info. I'll read your transmission page tonight. I powered through your '68 project page last night and I see exactly what you are saying about fitting a new engine and transmission. It's not what I want to take on right now.
In my Model 15 Entertainer there is an existing bathroom with a toilet and sink in a separate compartment, one ice box, a small refrigerator, a microwave, and a coffee maker. I am in the process of putting in a separate shower with a changing space, and adding kitchen counter and cabinet space. Everything is to the side of the center aisle, and if someone is in the bathroom, they are not blocking passage to the rear, and the same will apply to using the shower. Privacy is also protected in that kind of arrangement with different genders and ages involved. The very common setup of lounge in the front, then kitchen, then pass-through bathroom to the rear bedroom works for a couple, and is very nice for them, but does not work for 3-4 times the number of people.
Jim, I get what you and others are saying about the entertainers. The setup you mention is exactly what I'm going for. And I suppose it's fairly simple to pull out a set of bunks to enlarge a kitchen or put in a shower/change room. It's the time and expense to install bigger tanks, inverters and batteries, and operating windows that worries me. I need to look into those items so I know what I'm getting into. It affects my available cash for the bus itself.

Thanks again all, and keep the firehose coming. :o
Greg
Eagle obsessed
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:37 am
Bus Model: 1968 model 05 Eagle series 60 and B500
Location: McCook NE

Re: I'm new around here and have some questions

Post by Eagle obsessed »

Walter, that brings up an interesting subject about running a series 60 against the governor.

When we were at the rally at ogallala, I was in a conversation that mentioned higher engine speeds and gearing.

It appears that a series 60 does not mind running against the governor at 2100 RPM.

I was told this story: ( names omitted)

Driver A was cruising along Interstate at a moderate speed with his M11. Driver B is cruising much faster with his 8v92 and blows past driver A. Keep in mind that the drivers know each other. So of course turns into competition with driver A flooring it to keep up, running his M11 at governed rpm or close. Turns out that the valves start to skip and take out the back of the cam at high speed for long periods of time! (I don't remember exactly how this happens, but somehow the valves start to take out the back of the cam). Anyway that was the end of the race for driver A.

(True story)

My attempt at jotting down true stories! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Maybe someone on here actually knows the victims bus.

Moral of story: some 4 stroke engines do not mind to run high RPM but it does take away some of the fuel economy. However some 4 strokes will not hold up to high RPM

That is what I heard and saw

Mason
1968 05 Series 60/B500 swap 2019-2021
1971 05 8v71 Spicer 4 speed parts bus
User avatar
DoubleEagle
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm
Bus Model: 1975 Model 05 Eagle
1982 Model 10 Eagle
1984 Model 10 Eagle
1994 Model 15-45 Eagle
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Re: I'm new around here and have some questions

Post by DoubleEagle »

Mason,

Who knows what really happened, but the M11 is a smaller engine, I've driven it in VanHool's, it does not keep up with Series 60's very well. I drove a military tank retriever that had the Cummins 903 V8, which had a redline at 2100. The problem was, it was geared so low, that the top speed was around 45 mph, which did not cut it driving on the Interstates. The mechanics in the motor pool who maintained it said just run her up to 2500, but not over. I did that a lot, and she survived just fine. Overall longevity might be reduced, but nothing immediately bad will always happen. In your case, you've got extra gears, so you don't have to sweat the governor. When I get Silverleaf on, then I can behave. ;)
Walter
Dayton, Ohio
1975 Silvereagle Model 05, 8V71, 4 speed Spicer
1982 Eagle Model 10, 6V92, 5 speed Spicer
1984 Eagle Model 10, 6V92 w/Jacobs, Allison HT740
1994 Eagle Model 15-45, Series 60 w/Jacobs, Allison HT746
Post Reply