Belts Flipped/stop solinoid stuck

[jcb]

Another "side of the road" challenge. 83 Model 10 threw both fan belts. Can't get to it through the top so it's going to be rough going. Was able to pull of in a nice couples driveway, and they agreed to let me park it for a few days until I can get it fixed and out of there. What are the prime reasons for belts flipping? I'm assuming the usual, "out-of-align", "Bad Belts" answers, but kind of hoping for more insight as I crawl under. There's about a 4" space between the Muffler and radiator to jam my arm up to work, and I already know about the "remove the bolts from the pulley drive to gain mountability" thing. Thats great if you have a Air gun, but not so easy on the side of the road. Also, is it a scary big deal to disconnect the miter box drive shaft to gain the ability to mount the new belts? I sure don't want to have to take to doggone whole radiator out to get to this. If I have to, I'll unscrew and tear out the rear lounge long seat to get to it from the top. Also , it won't start now. I hear hissing from the shut off skinner valve, and the governor solinoid is stuck out and won't release. It also "popped" the last couple times I turned the main switch on to start it from the rear. Switch just went bad at the front. Can I cut or disconnect the line, and get it going, or will it release if I empty the air tanks. Heard about uncoupling the line to it as a stopgap, but never tried it. Everything else is working great, but we're stuck in the middle of nowhere for now. Sure wish more of you guys lived in Michigan. Model 10 8V71. It's stranded up in New Era, Michigan by Muskegon. I just know that if I can get these two problems handled, it'll be smooth sailing the rest of the summer.

[jcb]

I forgot to mention that It is a 1983 Model 10 former Senator Coach #31044 8V71 Automatic with a standard Fan belt configuration. It's in great shape, other than needing a new paint job and a little body work. The info on my jcb profile is for my last bus, and I have yet to figure out how to change it.

[beltguy]

Hi Jim

Sorry to hear about being parked.

The drive from the right angle gearbox to the fan has long centers and there is not much you can do to change alignment. Unless there is some major problem with support structure of the box, fan mounting, or idler, the alignment should be acceptable.

I think I read somewhere where the belts had turned over and you put them back on. If they turned over once they are dead.

When you put the new belts on, be sure to check the bearing of the fan, idler and gearbox to make sure the shafts can't be moved and the bearings feel good. Also check the pulleys to make sure they are not worn. One sure sign of excessive wear is polishing in the bottom of the groove.

Those drives are pretty darn reliable. I don't think the design changed much over the years.

I will be anxious to hear about whether the kevlar belts seem matched.

No matter what, I would check the tension after a hundred miles or so to make sure it seems reasonable.

Jim

[beltguy]

Jim, you should able to change your signature by going clicking on the profile button and poking around until you find the signature tab.

Jim

[jcb]

Jim,
Thanks for all the help over the years........you have no idea how much it is appreciated. Yes, the belt had turned. Tried to save time, bad move. Do you think if I took apart the couch/bed in the rear lounge, I could get to the fan in a more open manner? I just can't get my arm up in it more than just the base of the fan in only 4" of space. Muffler blocks the rest. That is, of course, not even mentioning that my claustorphobia (sp), makes it torture. I really don't want to take the radiator out and have never done that. Also, the governor shut-off solinoid is stuck open, and the skinner valve seems to be leaking. Can I just disconnect the ait line at the governor, and get it going? heard of it, but never done it.

[davida]

When I changed my fan belt I had to open the floor in the bedroom to slip it over the fan blades. I don't think it can be done otherwise without removing the radiator. That is a big deal I recommend the floor entry. My eagle is an 85 and I guess the same as your 83, but not 100% sure.

I cannot figure how both flipped at the same time. Something had to move way out of alignment for that to happen. Mine has no adjustment laterally. It is factory set. Only tension can be adjusted by the fan idler and the alternator mounting arm.

David

[jcb]

Thanks! That's exactly the answer to the Accessability question I've been looking for. I'm going through the floor. I had been told the only way was under......and I was thinking that that was really going to be a bear.

[luvrbus]

I have always done mine from the rear by just removing the 4 drive shaft bolts and swing it out of the way .Be sure you check your pillar block on the fan and the bottom pillar block.Dennis has the bus 8v71 model 10 it took us less than a hour at least you have good manifolds now

[davida]

I have always done mine from the rear by just removing the 4 drive shaft bolts and swing it out of the way .Be sure you check your pillar block on the fan and the bottom pillar block.Dennis has the bus 8v71 model 10 it took us less than a hour at least you have good manifolds now

That sounds feasible. Give it a try before removing floor.

David

[jcb]

Made it home after, fortunately, a cool day in the 70's to work on and under and in the Model 10. First, the TSC Kevlar belts worked and are working ( 250 miles) perfectly with no signs of wear or failing. Second (I'll post this in the parts section), based on Jim Shepards suggestion....I bought 89" x 5/8 (which is just a bit off the original specs of 11/16 x 89 1/4"). Just make sure you compare them and get as close to a matched set as you can.
First, we disengaged the 4 bolt universal, taking care not let the bearing shift or fall out. Slipped the belts over, making sure they were in the proper order and perspective. Next, I deconstructed the rear lounge, and was able to get to the original hatch over the fan. WAY better than struggling to reach things from under the bus. I probably could have, but it would have been a pinch-fest, and band-aid's don't stick to grease. Put the belts, one at a time, over the fan blades, going blade by blade, being careful, again, to put them in the positions they needed to be, until they were both threaded on the fan pulley. At this time, I checked and lubed the idler pulley and fan pully ( the zerks were above and back by the Alternator), and went around back to prepare for the tightening and finish. Tap dancing all the way. I had already loosened the pulley drive to loosen the alternator belts, and loosened/removed the bolts that hold it on to achieve enough slack to work with the belts. I did this by keeping the front bolts extremely loose and removing the back, then using a small jack, jacked it up at an angle to deal with the belts. We then discovered that there was an oil line/hose, connected to the alternator, that was in the way of the belts being correct. After a lot of cussing, we found that it was a standard 2 nut configuration (hold one/turn one), and it came right off, allowing us to re-thread the hose and connect, tighten, and prep all the belts (3 on the Alt, 2 on the fan). Did that, started it up, drove home. Now we found a new oil leak to deal with, and my wife tells me she has never seen me so completely filthy with grease and attitude.
I know that there are those who feel that, if your going to have a bus, you should know about this stuff, and the myriad of problems that arise. Although I have had others do the work for most of my life, it is now appropriate that I do what I can. Not everyone has the incredible amount of scratch to subsidize large and expensive truck and bus repair facilities, so sometimes we have to step up and just figure it out. That is where this great forum is valuable. I studied it, re-read it, and used what was applicable to my particular situation to get it done. I did find though , that there was usually just "1" thing left out, that had to be discovered.........so let's all make a special effort to clearly describe the process as we know it to those who don't. I am sometimes one of them.
Thanks to all who contributed........it's a special kind of accomplishment when you achieve something you were ready to give up on.

jc