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Eagle production Records

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Re: Eagle production Records
Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:47 pm


Before we get too far down the road of posting manuals, we need to check the copyright issues. At least one company makes money selling these manuals (http://www.busforsale.com/bulletin_board.html). They posted the manuals on their website at one time, but pulled them for some reason.

Perhaps Silver Eagle can shed some light on ownership of the manual rights.

Jim
Jim Shepherd
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'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission - not at all fancy, but fully functional
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Re: Eagle production Records
Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:04 am


We definitely won't post copyrighted materials on the website, Jim. I thought the production numbers would be just a listing of serial numbers and info on each. Looks like it is going to be that the lists are the property of different individuals who don't want it listed publicly so of course that will be honored. There will be plenty of information that is put together by members of this forum who won't mind sharing it here that will still make this site a great resource.
Dale Houston
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Re: Eagle production Records
Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:48 am


I received this information from Jim Bowman yesterday.

Quote~

I have established a new email address to handle requests for previous information on single buses:

mybusfax@yahoo.ca

You may direct any requests for previous owner information to this email address. NOTE that any such request must include the unit serial number for units built prior to 1981, or the Vehicle Identification Number (all 18 digits) for units built after 1981, and this is available on a single coach basis only.

End of Quote~

So it looks like that is the only way to get individual coach information from him.

Good Luck on your search,

Paul
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Re: Eagle production Records
Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:38 am


Paul, I don't know what the big deal is with these guys I have over 4000 0f the origianal work orders and copies on Eagles along with any changes that were made list all the equipment,engines transmissions even tells what brand of tire the customer ordered but I do not have much on the older buses like the 01 and 05's and that is what I am looking for.never fear we will get there


good luck
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Re: Eagle production Records
Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:34 am


Clifford, I'll be glad to help you get those records straight and in a good shareable format if you want. I sent my VIN# and NJT# to Craig and all he was able to tell me was that it was originally purchased by New Jersey Transit. Obviously I already knew that. Probably in my case, and the case of most NJT owners, the only place that could really give us any history on the bus is NJT.
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Re: Eagle production Records
Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:11 pm


Jim, FWIW there are only 8 things that can have a copyright without a patent
1 literary works
2 musical works
3 dramatic works
4 pantomimes works
5 pictoral works
6 motion picture works
7 sound recordings
8 architectural works

when the patent expires so does the copyright
good luck
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Re: Eagle production Records
Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:12 pm


Clifford,

I don't understand either.

I figure that it sould be available, but that's what Jim wants.

When John Vickers sends me his records, I don't think that rule will apply. He never mentioned not posting it. I told him what I wanted it for.

We'll see how it all works out in the end.

Paul
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Re: Eagle production Records
Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:21 pm


Clifford,

Being in the music business, I have a pretty hefty understanding of copyrights. This is really no different than if someone had written a book. Even though all the records may be public, the fact is that if someone goes to the trouble of researching it and putting it into a package, the package belongs to that person (unless the information in the package already belongs to someone else). If all of this information actually belonged to Silver Eagle, it wouldn't matter if someone tried to repackage it, it would still belong to Silver Eagle.

It sounds like this is the build history of each bus, plus a history of the buses since they left Eagle. Ownership would be a little difficult to prove in that scenario. Copyright law says that on an ORIGINAL work, the work is actually copyright at the moment the pen leaves the paper on the final stroke. Now that doesn't mean it is protected. Filing of the proper forms with the copyright office is what protects it. Other than that, it is left to the good will and character of the people you share it with not to share it further.

Since I don't know what is in these records, or who the rightful owner is, I can't really say. But as much as I would like people to be able to see the history of their bus, I certainly don't want to infringe on someone else's property. Even if I don't know who the actual property belongs to. It sounds like several people have put together very similar lists. All we need is permission of one to use their list. If there were an infringement, it would be the obligation of the owner of the copyright, to file a complaint. But somehow I don't think any of this is copyrighted information.
Dale Houston
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Re: Eagle production Records
Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:40 pm


OK guys, it appears that some think I am being a pain in the rear. I just want to make sure we don't get this site in trouble.

There are two items being discussed in this thread. The first is the serial number information. At least one person has published part of that information. If we are sure that person had permission to publish the information and if that person gives us permission to use the information, I am all for publishing it. I suspect that Silver Eagle is the "owner" of the information since they apparently purchased the rights.

The second thing that has been discussed in this thread is the possibility of putting the many manuals that Eagle Manufacturing published on this site. I would be almost certain that the documents have a copyright declaration on them. I am not sure what the arrangement is between busforsale.com and Eagle Manufacturing is. I suspect that busforsale.com is on pretty thin ice unless they have written permission to publish (especially publish for sale). I think we need to make sure we understand who has ownership of this material. If Silver Eagle is the owner of the copyright and they grant us permission to publish the manuals I would be a very happy camper!

Clifford, I am far from an expert on Copyright laws, but my understanding is that there is no relationship between patents and copyrights (or trademarks).

I took a quick look tonight and found two sites that detail the application of copyright laws:

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-g ... ml#protect
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wwp

Please understand that I want this material on this site as much as anyone, but we must abide by copyright law.

Jim
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission - not at all fancy, but fully functional
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: http://beltguy.com/blog/
Email: jim@eaglesinternational.net (Please email me rather than use the PM process)
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Re: Eagle production Records
Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:51 pm


Jim, to add to my comments above in relation to the links you posted...

I said that the work is considered copyrighted the moment the pen leaves the paper. Your link agreed with that but also said it is protected. I said it wasn't protected until it was registered. There is a symantics difference there only.

While the work might be 'protected' at the moment it is finished, being able to prove that is another story entirely. That is why everyone in the business understands it to be protected when it is filed. That is when you have proof of ownership.

And just to be clear.. I agree with you totally. We do not want to infringe on any copyrights. The question I posed is about who really does own the copyrights if any. Doing research and putting together a list of facts doesn't necessarily make someone the copyright owner if that information was already owned by someone else. I figured Eagle does own the original sales information. Beyond that, I don't know if Eagle kept up with buses. It appears that they did not with mine because they don't have any further information.

This is certainly a sticky wicket! :?
Dale Houston
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