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Slideouts

This is a public forum to discuss Eagle related technical issues. If you are having a problem with your Eagle, this is the place to find help.
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rhbelter
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Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:22 pm
FMCA #: F92654
Bus Model: Eagle -01 1967 Cummins M-11 10 spd OD RR
Location: Carmel CA

Re: Slideouts

Post by rhbelter »

Ahoy, Eagles,

Dan and Hal have it right. You had best NOT just whack into an Eagle and stuff-in slides. The structural beam(s) of an Eagle is the pair of side trusses from the windows to the floors. Very light and strong. The over all skinning provides the torsional structural component required. Easy to get a feel for what you are doing by taping the cover on a shoebox. Pretty ridged. Cut some holes in it, and you quickly see how easy your bus with poorly done slides will 'fold-up' like a shoe box.

And, I DO have the proper credentials to discuss this subject.

I looked at the compromises (and the work-load) of putting slides in my Eagle -01 and went without.

If I were going to do them, the slide outs would be fully structural components which locate on conical structural pins when closed. Fairly unusual, but the F-14 Tomcat Navy Fighter used structural engine cover doors.

This sort of thing requires pretty good 'practice' to be successful, and may well not do well in the hands of the 'great unwashed'. But, if you can build it, you surely should be able to keep it working OK.

As part of the scheme, you had best include a three point leveling system, so that you take the torque off the hull with the slide outs open. That way you can get them closed too.

This structural door method is quite light (but NOT simple), and properly done, you will have full strength and rigidity. The more conventional technique of installing big beams is heavy, and with the differential bending, you don't get anywhere the original rigidity, but you get LOTS of weight.


Enjoy /s/ Bob
Bob Belter Carmel CA ---- Eagle -01 /w/ Cummins M-11/ Roadranger ten speed RTO1110
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chrisber
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Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:15 am
FMCA #: F138799
Bus Model: 1984 Eagle Model 10 (As Good As It Gets) #020585
-- Currently powered by DDC 6V92TA, Allison MT740
-- DDC 12.7 L Series 60 (Pre-EGR) and adapted Allison HD 4560
still sitting on special dolly ready to be installed.
Location: El Paso, TX

Re: Slideouts

Post by chrisber »

I am a newcomer on this board as well and this is my first posted message.

Though I am inclined to dive right into the complexities of structural design, I do not feel seasoned enough to write about something at length and in detail, especially when it becomes part of a formal exchange of strong opinion. My conscience, however, tells me that I must take sides at this point in the discussion.

Having devoted my entire working life to science and engineering and since I am not necessarily a neophyte vis-à-vis the many challenges involving an Eagle conversion, I feel that I must contribute to the debate at least by touching on my own experience and point of view.

I always considered the structure of my Eagle (not always from a metallurgical point of view) an impressive design that reflects successful stress analysis and resulting design techniques and manufacturing methodologies akin to the ones used by the aircraft industry. So, after examining various “supposedly unbeaten” slide-out room implementations at a number of reputable bus converters, I decided against it even though I had the money (profit sharing by a generous employer) to pay for such an expensive venture at that time.

What I saw was actually frightening. The serious reconstructive surgery and awe-inspiring REINFORCEMENT intended to somewhat or somehow restore the strength of the original space frame must have added momentous weight and dangerous unbalance without achieving the desired results. Moreover, I could not even perceive a hint of anyone of the converters taking into account the inherent twisting moments of the vehicle in motion or during emplacement on uneven surfaces.

Considering the risks, effects, costs and benefits, my wife and I opted not to proceed with structure modifications and the installation of an additional slide-out living space. We also began to become conscious of not liking water leaks and a coach that could perhaps howl like an old English castle during travel. Instead, we decided to invest in extensive insulation (both temperature and sound), an energy efficient electric power plant and other luxury items. Moreover, we found and still find the living spaces in our coach not at all confining and exceptionally comfortable. It’s because we spent many hours in planning and implementing a layout that evokes the feeling of an atmosphere of open space within the constraints of limited dimensions. We never once had the desire to add floor space.

Christian Berlit
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Songman
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FMCA #: F404262
Bus Model: 1993 Silver Eagle Model 15-45
Location: Nashville, TN
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Re: Slideouts

Post by Songman »

Impressive first post, Christian. We're glad to have you with us and look forward to your participation. Don't ever hesitate to jump in and share your experiences.

I'm glad to see that you for your avatar added. Now I hope we will see lots more pictures of your Eagle in a Project thread soon.
Dale Houston
1993 Eagle 15-45
Nashville, TN
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Two Feathers
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Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:43 pm
FMCA #: F234821
Bus Model: 1978 Eagle 05
1990 Eagle 15

Re: Slideouts

Post by Two Feathers »

Christian,

Welcome aboard! Lets hear more about your selection on the insulation for both sound and heat. I am just about ready to put the floor in my conversion and need to hear from everyone about floor insulation. I am pretty well convinved that we will spray the ceiling and walls but still need ideas for the floor insulation.
1990 Eagle 15 Under Construction
Cummins M-11 Celect Plus
Allison 746, T drive axle
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chrisber
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:15 am
FMCA #: F138799
Bus Model: 1984 Eagle Model 10 (As Good As It Gets) #020585
-- Currently powered by DDC 6V92TA, Allison MT740
-- DDC 12.7 L Series 60 (Pre-EGR) and adapted Allison HD 4560
still sitting on special dolly ready to be installed.
Location: El Paso, TX

Re: Slideouts

Post by chrisber »

Songman - thank you very much for your kind words.

Judging from your specific concern, NormaJean, you almost certainly have recognized that as an avid bus nut you will have to understand and apply seemingly arcane laws of Physics -- from sound to light and everything in-between. It’s humbling, isn’t it?

Yet, something wonderful happens when a group of people with an open mind as well as positive sensory orientation begin to solve problems via a board -- such the one from Eagles International -- and in fact discuss complicated issues and begin to solve problems. It’s actually called the “Mastermind” principle.

The concept of the Mastermind Group is not new. It was formally introduced by Napoleon Hill in the early 1900's. In his timeless classic he wrote about the Mastermind principle as: "The coordination of knowledge and effort of two or more people, who work toward a definite purpose, in the spirit of harmony." He continues ... "No two minds ever come together without thereby creating a third, invisible intangible force, which may be likened to a third mind."

The beauty of Mastermind Groups is that participants raise the bar by challenging each other to create and implement goals, brainstorm ideas, and support each other with total honesty, respect and compassion. When that happens, then “The Third Mind” at all times far exceeds the brainpower of any one of the participants.

With this in mind I am certainly not opposed to venturing into a discussion with you all about “Acoustical Materials” that can successfully be applied to the interior of a bus under conversion. This thread, however, focuses on the pros and cons connected with the incorporation of slide-out rooms.

So, is straying from the original topic acceptable?

Christian
Christian Berlit
El Paso, TX

He who has a why to live can bear almost any how. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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Dreamscape
Posts: 3046
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:03 pm
FMCA #: F391238
Bus Model: 1968 Silver Eagle Model 01
Location: Full Timing - On The Road

Re: Slideouts

Post by Dreamscape »

Chris,

It would be best if you would start a new topic on insulation. That way it's easier to locate when someone does a search, also the discussion can stay on track. ;)

Everyones input is invaluable, that is the end result of the third mind! :) (I really don't have a clue, it just sounded good) :roll:

~Paul~
Paul Lawry
Dreamscape
1968 Eagle 01 #7443
Silver 8V92 HT 740

Dreamscape Build Blog: https://dreamscapesilvereagle.wordpress.com/
Hal
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:25 pm
FMCA #: f128731
Bus Model: 1974 05 Eagle

Re: Slideouts

Post by Hal »

Nice posts Chris.
The problem I have after talking with Chris is that there doesn't seem to be three minds afterwards-(my 1/2 gray matter + his :lol: :lol: )
Keep up the good work Chris.
Hal
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Eagle Andy
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Posts: 1024
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:37 pm
FMCA #: F299044
Bus Model: 1968 SE Model 05
Location: Miles city Mt

Re: Slideouts

Post by Eagle Andy »

Well now , I just finished reading the post by Christian and I must say I am impressed Not only did I not understand what some of the words he used meant, "Iam of a simple learned it on the street kind of guy" but the way he put it made sense to me and after owning a motorhome with three slide's and finding it rather nice to live in it when you're sitting still. However when you were underway the wind noise and rattles made me vow to live without them. There is something to be said about owning a motorhome or a bus with slides when they were originally engineered that way. I myself am the first to say to each his own and that's how I stand on this . But heck where would we be with out good ole American ingenuity?
Andy Wright 68 Silver Eagle Model 5 8V92 #7481
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Dreamscape
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FMCA #: F391238
Bus Model: 1968 Silver Eagle Model 01
Location: Full Timing - On The Road

Re: Slideouts

Post by Dreamscape »

This is a great topic to get several opinions on what works and what doesn't. I do not have any first hand knowledge of slides at all. I will say, it's beyond what I would be willing to tackle at this stage in my life. If I was in my 30's I give it a shot. A lot of engineering time has to be spent, even mock-ups, or other opinions from more experienced folk.

I think that very few people, Kentucky Steve is included, would be capable of such a task. It's not something for the faint of heart or pocket book I'm sure.

I have seen only one Eagle in person that had slides, and it was gorgeous. I did not get a chance to talk with George McConaughey at the rally about it though. It looked like it was pretty stout.

The structual integrity would have to be superior for it to even withstand loads from side winds, bumps, inclines and just plain driving under the worse conditions.

I know my wife would like the extra room! ;)

~Paul~
Paul Lawry
Dreamscape
1968 Eagle 01 #7443
Silver 8V92 HT 740

Dreamscape Build Blog: https://dreamscapesilvereagle.wordpress.com/
User avatar
Dreamscape
Posts: 3046
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:03 pm
FMCA #: F391238
Bus Model: 1968 Silver Eagle Model 01
Location: Full Timing - On The Road

Re: Slideouts

Post by Dreamscape »

Guys, I just went to Kentucky Steve's website and all I can say is WOW! He is doing a First Class job on his slides! I'm no engineer, but there has been many hours of thought, planning and building to get where he is. His work is meticulous! I'll bet you a can of your favorite beverage that when it's all said and done it will be the envy of many!

I guess I'm lucky, when I post on my website I get to see his updates as a follower, so that way I can keep up with his project. Otherwise I probably wouldn't remember! ;)

~Paul~
Paul Lawry
Dreamscape
1968 Eagle 01 #7443
Silver 8V92 HT 740

Dreamscape Build Blog: https://dreamscapesilvereagle.wordpress.com/
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