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Transmission Swap

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Transmission Swap
Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:25 am


Hey Guys,

At the top of my list of Eagles to purchase is a Model 10 with a Series 60 and a 740 Transmission. Would it be possible to swap that 740 for a World or Autoshift transmission ? How much would that set me back to purchase the transmission and have it done? Thanks for your input!

Steve
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Re: Transmission Swap
Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:39 pm


Hi Steve. The World can be made to bolt to the Series 60 with no problem. Making it talk to the Series 60 might be a bit more difficult. I believe that it talks to the engine via SAE J1939 protocol. If that is the case, the Series 60 would need to be a late DDEC III. My DDEC III would not activate the J 1939, and I had to upgrade to a DDEC IV (about $1600). It would also requre an electronic cable that would run to the front.

I am pretty sure the World is shorter than the HT740 by a couple of inches or so, thus length would not be a problem. You would need a new drive shaft, and plumbing to hook to the cooling system (probably not much involved). The transmission hangs off the back of the engine, so there is no mount to make.

Three or four years ago, you could not find used World transmissions. New ones were said to be over $20K. I have heard of folks finding used ones for less than half that.

Getting someone to do the job and buying the transmission would be at least $10K and probably double that.

I am stretching a bit for this answer. Hopefully someone with direct experience will be able to add to, or correct my statements.

Sorry I don't have better news.

PS, at the Eagle Rally in Quartzsite, there should be some folks with better knowledge that do not get involved with Internet forums. If you call me during the rally (1/15-17), I can ask around.

Jim
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission - not at all fancy, but fully functional
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: http://beltguy.com/blog/
Email: jim@eaglesinternational.net (Please email me rather than use the PM process)
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Re: Transmission Swap
Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:23 pm


Jim, can't understand why the DDEC III had a problem talking to the world trans, it should have no problem. The Worlds are much easier to make work than the 740's mech transmissions.
As for fitting them to a 10, you may have to do a little work on the left frame as the Worlds are a little wider, but not really much is involved. The wiring is not too difficult but if you can find a complete package you will be MUCH, MUCH happier. Hal
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Re: Transmission Swap
Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:28 pm


I was offered an HD4060 for $8500 with no exchange just a couple of weeks ago. I'm a long way from needing that and can go a long way on my conversion for $8500 but that is a good deal. The HD4060 is the truck version of the bus B500. The biggest difference is the depth of the pan... and some HD4060s have a PTO drive.
Dale Houston
1993 Eagle 15-45
Nashville, TN
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Re: Transmission Swap
Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:09 pm


Personally I would not advise going with the hydraulic transmission. Yes, the electronic is a lot more money, but I do not believe you will ever be happy with the 740, especially if you ever get to drive a newer coach with the WTEC. I bought my ISM and HD4560 as a mated pair, minus the control harnesses. There were no issues in physically fitting the package into my M10. The biggest issue was obtaining and wiring up the engine/trans. controls. The transmission controls can be obtained from St. Claire Technologies, who I believe still manufacture the harnesses for Allison Transmission. If I remember correctly I paid about 750 for my trans. and shifter harnesses through my local DDA distributor. I let them measure all the break outs and order from St. Claire so I would not get stuck with the cost if I designed the harness incorrectly. Because I did not have a transmission ECU, I had to buy a new one and I had it programmed for the coach application. I now have my own custom ECU program code in the DDA files. It was a lot of money but worth it. Mine drives and shifts just like a brand new Prevost. By the way, the HD4560P that I have, although a "truck" transmission is nearly identical to a B500 in every way. Don't know for sure, but the converter is probably about the only difference. The ratios are the same. Yes, you can make a 740 work with a S60 as Jim says, his information is excellant, as always. But you have to overcome the shift modulation issue. You can partially achieve this with some parts and directions from some of the Allison Watch Bulletins, but you will probably wind up forever shifting the transmission manually to achieve any kind of shift quality at all. Better to invest the $3,500 or so you would pay for a used 740 into the cost of a B500. You will be much happier in the long run. Just my humble opinion based on a few years of experience running both types. Hope this helps.
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Re: Transmission Swap
Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:49 am


Hal, I may have made a bad assumption about the World with a DDEC III. My assumption was that they communicated via a J1939 protocol. That is the way my AutoShift communicates with the engine.

My DDEC III ECM did not have the J1939 port acitvate (normal if it is not needed). I took the ECM into the DD dealer and they said no problem to turn it on. They had to contact the main computer at DD home office for them to check the ECM number and send computer "signal" to the local dealer to turn the option on. I watched them try several times, including several calls to the home computer folks and they simply could not get the port activated. I really don't think they were pulling the wool over my eyes.

Everything the techs could read and were told by the home office is that DDEC III should have J1939 capability, but not mine.

I went to the parts department and got a DDEC IV ECM ($$$$$$) and they programmed it with no problem.

BTW, Steve (started this thread) has just purchased a beautiful GM 4106 :(

Jim
Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
'85 Eagle 10 with Series 60 & Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission - not at all fancy, but fully functional
Bus Project pages: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog: http://beltguy.com/blog/
Email: jim@eaglesinternational.net (Please email me rather than use the PM process)
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Re: Transmission Swap
Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:03 pm


Steve.

Dale and I have a 1981 model 10 that we can install a 60s or a 8V71 or 92 and either a HT740, HD4060 or a 9spd autoshift for you.

Don
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