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Protection and Firearms

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Re: Protection and Firearms
Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:30 am


Jim: Overpenetration is a problem with rifle cartridges, but not really with pistol (pistol = semiauto handgun) or revolver (5,6,7,0r 8 shot) cartridges..
Even with a single caliber designation, for example 9mm, the “power” of the cartridge varies with different brands and “part numbers” of ammunition, with the power ranging from anemic to “as high as the engineering standards allow”. Almost every ammunition manufacturer identifies the power of the ammunition somewhere right on the box OR within its product catalog.
The other factor is bullet shape and type. For self defense you should specify a “jacketed hollowpoint bullet” or “JHP” abbreviated. Such a bullet, on impact with anything (human or wall), “mushrooms out” and “flattens” to create as large a cross-section as possible, in order to create as large a wound channel as possible. This naturally acts to limit overpenetration of course as well.
If you buy ammunition that is rated at “600 ft lb of energy” or less, AND “JHP”, overpenetration will NOT be a problem with any handgun load you are going to find in a local gun shop.
Note that “JHP” can also be expressed differently, depending on specifics of the bullet. Just tell the clerk you want “self defense jacketed hollowpoint ammunition” for your firearm.
As far as carry size: Get a gun that will be carryable (assuming you get the required “concealed handgun license” or “CHL” required in virtually all jurisdictions). A gun sitting in your RV or car is useless if you are endangered while even only 20 feet from it.
Smith & Wesson revolvers come in several sizes: J, K, L, or N, with J being the smallest and N the largest. Take a look at the Smith & Wesson line of “J” sized revolvers. They are small enough to tuck into a reasonably sized pocket, but of course a proper concealed holster is better (better retention when walking and running and far faster to draw when needed). Thesehandguns weigh anywhere from 13 ounces (lightweight hi0tech alloy) to 23 ounces (stainless steel). I recommend the stainless steel for (a) less recoil because it is a bit heavier and (b) no corrosion due to wet weather or perspiration. These revolvers hold 5 rounds.. If a non-pro shooter needs more than 5 rounds to handle a situation, the situation is not handleable without police assistance.
I have been a semiauto shooter for most of my 45 years of shooting, but recently switched to a S&W “Lady Smith” stainless J model (Model 60 LS). It holds 5 rounds of 357 Magnum in whatever strength of ammo I choose, and it requires miminal maintenance, and is simple enough to operate that my wife can do it. That’s a winning combination for a self defense handgun.
p.s. No one will laugh at you for carrying a “girl’s gun” when they find out it shoots 357 Magnum. It’s a “pit bull” of a gun.
Jim G
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Re: Protection and Firearms
Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:19 am


Jim G, I took a look at the 60LS and it does not look feminine to me :D . Big $$$

In Denver we have a huge gun show each month (Tanner Gun Show). I may take my friend and see what we can find. He sounds a lot like you -- lots of competitive shooting and great knowledge about weapons. I will be gone for the March show but should be here for the April show.

Money is tight right now, so I may have to put off the purchase for a while.

So, that brings up the question about how to mount the shotgun in the coach for both safety and quick access. I have it in a bag right now, but that would not be good for an emergency. Someone mentioned having it under the mattress. Don't think I like that idea.

Thoughts anyone?

Jim
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Re: Protection and Firearms
Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:00 pm


Keep the shotgun with shells in it, but DO NOT chamber a round until you pick it up for a situation. Shotguns have been known to fire when struck against a surface (police situaitons like this have occurred).

The sound of chambering a round is often enough to dissuade a bad guy. :)

Do NOT "stand it up" - it will fall (buses move too much even when parked)

Do not store where temperature changes often (like on the floor). That promotes condensation.

Best location is in bedroom, so that you can "retreat" there, pick up shotgun, and defend from a cover position, where your assailant also HAS to come through a narrow doorway (makes him a sitting duck).

Wall mounted on 2 SECURE pegs (like bicuycle hooks) might be an idea for quick access. UNLOAD and hide ammo when the kids visit.

Use 00 buckshot or something almost as large. Smaller pellets might not penetrate sufficiently especially if the bad guy is wearing heavy clothing like denim or leather. Don't worry, the pellets will not go into your neighbors' RVs.

Jim G
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Re: Protection and Firearms
Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:48 pm


We used these when I was in patrol. They are operated both by a key or electric button. when you push the button it will unlock it for a determined amount of time and then lock itself again if the weapon is not removed in the alotted amount of time. You could mount it in the closet right by the bedroom in you bus. It will keep it away from children and aid in stopping a thief. You can mount the button in a drawer near your bed or wherever you choose. Hit the button as your getting up and getting to the weapon. Great tool.
http://www.fleetsafety.com/gun-racks/
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Re: Protection and Firearms
Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:35 pm


This may not be for everyone. But the bet solution Cheryl and I have found is to carry "The Judge" it is a 6 shot revolver. You can load it with 410 shot gun shells and 45 cal cowboy loads. To me this is the gun to have on board the bus. You can load it with both types of load at the same time. If your prefer load the first 3 cylinders with the 45 cal cowboy loads for the distance shot. If the threat is not stopped by then the last 3 loads are 410 shot gun loads for close range. It is stated the the revolver got it's name because alot of Judges carry this type of weapon into the court room. This is also a great revolver to carry in the car. A 410 OO load can do alot of damage up close.

Hope I never ever had to find out but I would rather be judged by 12 that carried by 6.

For conceal carry we both have our CCW permit and have attended classes for stress shooting. We both carry a Bersa 380 with defense loads...


Hope this helped

Duane & Cheryl
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St. Louis, Mo
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Re: Protection and Firearms
Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:35 pm


Just my 2-cents. Keltek 9mm, hollow point. In my car or on my person most of the time. I find myself in somewhat shady parts of town with the kids after dark from time to time and it's nice to have around.

I want a Glock though. My Keltek is good and all but rusts easily and needs more cleaning than I would like to invest my time in. I like how you can store a Glock in a mudpuddle and it still works. Also, I find it IMPOSSIBLE to find a left-handed holster for a Keltek and I know they have them in abundance for a Glock. The holster I have for the Keltek when I carry concealed is an in-the-pants holster(whatever you call them) and I can only wear it with certain pants I have. I'd really like a Blackhawk paddle holster. It's much more comfy and easier to draw from.
Stephanie

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Re: Protection and Firearms
Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:00 pm


Interesting reading. Quite a lot of it seems confusing to me.

Here are some of my thoughts:

I carry a 12GA pump with us. I like the idea that just the sound of the slide operating will probably discourage most intruders. I load it with 4 shot. It is only for an intruder, they will be inside 40 feet and I consider that an emergency. I can't miss and I've got 3 more shots. I wish to do as little damage to the coach as possible. Depending on where I'm going, I carry the 45cal too as a backup.

At home I've got a S&W model 629 44cal with a 9 inch barrel and a Taurus 45cal. They are both loaded with wad cutters. I'm not concerned with distance, only stopping power.

These weapons are for our defense in our home & coach. I have no need for one in my car or on my person.

I have no intention of being anywhere I think I might need a concealed weapon.

The 9MM has fallen out of favor with virtually all the Army guys. It doesn't have the stopping power for the bad guys. The ones that can obtain them have gone back to the Colt 1911.
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Re: Protection and Firearms
Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:03 pm


Yes, the Glock is extremely reliable, and a worthy replacement for the Keltek.

But, use the highest velocity 9mm cartridges you can find - usually 115 grain bullet at 1300+ feet per second. Anything slower won't reliably take down a man, and usually won't take a druggie down unless you score a heart or spine shot, because they feel no pain when high or desperate to be so.

The recoil on such a cartridge is STILL very low compared to say a 45 or 357.

You can get some pretty small Glock models.

If you want a holster in addition to a good belt holster, one that you can wear even if wearing ONLY shorts, try a Thunderwear. This is a padded and lined cloth type holster that you wear "near your private parts". It is invisible even when wearing only shorts without any shirt. As a bonus, the larger the gun, the better endowed you look, and nobody EVER says "what's that" when it is being carried in that area of your anatomy! :) Not as fast to use as a good belt-mounted holster, but you'd be surprised at how fast it can be. And, for hot weather, sometimes it's the only option.

Jim G
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Re: Protection and Firearms
Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:03 am


:lol: Appearing to have a larger um "gun" might be cool for a man but not really so cool for a woman. :? I would prefer a holster that doesn't make me look like a man down there. :lol:

When it comes down to stopping power, if a person is determined enough to get me and keep coming at me after I've emptied my gun then I would be impressed. I've never had to shoot someone but if I did I would make it count.
Stephanie

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Re: Protection and Firearms
Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:35 am


sstrucinski wrote::lol: Appearing to have a larger um "gun" might be cool for a man but not really so cool for a woman. :? I would prefer a holster that doesn't make me look like a man down there. :lol:

When it comes down to stopping power, if a person is determined enough to get me and keep coming at me after I've emptied my gun then I would be impressed. I've never had to shoot someone but if I did I would make it count.


Stehphanie: In NUMEROUS shootouts involving a police officer taking down a drug-filled suspect, the officer has emptied his 9mm firearm's magazine.

Granted, many of the shots plain "miss" because in this type of stressful situation, a person who does not practice EVERY DAY lacks the muscle memory to perform accurately under the intense stress of someone trying to KILL YOU, but even 5 or 6 solid 9mm hits sometimes don't stop the perp.

In one of the most bizarre cases I am aware of, a Hell's Angel motorcycle club VP, totally under the influence of a drug (8 times the dose of that drug normally given to horses to tranquilize them), shot a similarly drug-filled "brother" with an entire pistolful of 45 acp rounds (8 rounds counting the one in the chamber). With the resulting ricochets (indoor shooting), there were 15 holes in the brother. Realizing what he had done, the VP drove the brother to the hospital through city traffic, and dumped him into the emergency room. After all that, the victim SURVIVED. And, I don't mean as a vegetable. He resumed almost normal life. That's with a 45 acp, which the more traditional shooters regard as stronger than 9mm.

Jim G
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