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Protection and Firearms

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Re: Protection and Firearms
Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:52 pm


Paul,
I have never had a peace officer comment on the location of the vault. I did go through an inspection by the border patrol at the highway 281 check point the last time I came up from the McAllen Texas area. They loved the box. It is really sweet and with a press of 4 buttons the box falls open and the handgun is right there waiting to be withdrawn.

Here is a link with the vault: http://www.buyasafe.com/ProductDetails. ... e=SWVV1014
Greg Roberts
New Mexico
1989 Eagle Model 20
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Re: Protection and Firearms
Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:14 pm


Greg,

I really like it, I can see why you bought one. The size is good too, and the lighted buttons makes it easy to see. Thanks for sending the link.

~Paul~
Becky & Paul Lawry
Dreamscape
1968 Eagle 01 #7443
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Re: Protection and Firearms
Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:39 am


What was the story last year where the guy was driving down a pretty deserted road somewhere in the Southeast and this old Cadillac started trying to run him off the road to stop him? Apparently it went on for a long time and the driver of the bus was able to keep going. Obviously, the people in the Cadillac were up to no good. We all need to think about some sort of protection. The world just ain't what it used to be unfortunately.
Dale Houston
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Nashville, TN
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Re: Protection and Firearms
Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:52 pm


Songman wrote:What was the story last year where the guy was driving down a pretty deserted road somewhere in the Southeast and this old Cadillac started trying to run him off the road to stop him? Apparently it went on for a long time and the driver of the bus was able to keep going. Obviously, the people in the Cadillac were up to no good. We all need to think about some sort of protection. The world just ain't what it used to be unfortunately.


That was me and my family but the road was not really deserted. It was in Sparta Georgia just as we were passing through town and the whole thing lasted several minutes. I came very close to having to shoot the fellow when he slid the caddy sideways in the road in an attempt to stop the bus. Luckily for him he did not slide the car well enough to block my passage and I was able to get around him once again and continue. He gave up after that final attempt. Had he successfully stopped square across the highway I would have had to ram him and then the inevitable would have happened. This event drove me to buy and install the gun vault. - Greg
Greg Roberts
New Mexico
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Re: Protection and Firearms
Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:48 pm


Hey Paul , I think you are on the right track , one never knows . Eileen has a snub nose 357 and I carry a 9mm , One thing you can not do which you might already know is take them into Canada. Anyway just a thought . Later Andy
Andy Wright 68 Silver Eagle Model 5 8V92 #7481
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Re: Protection and Firearms
Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:23 pm


At the present time we have no plans to go into to Canada or Mexico. My brother said I can have my old 20 ga. shotgun back, which I had forgot I gave to him when I left Oregon back in '85, so that's covered. I'm really leaning toward this http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/ ... model=3701 as our small hand gun. Becky's brother suggested it and I agree. I'll also get the box that Greg has, a great way to store and hide a small handgun. I'll feel better when we have them onboard.

~Paul~
Becky & Paul Lawry
Dreamscape
1968 Eagle 01 #7443
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Re: Protection and Firearms
Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:43 am


Paul, that is a good choice Sonja has the same gun easy for her to handle and not much recoil.I would buy 1 extra magazine clip that will give 12 rounds plus 1 good luck
Clifford
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Re: Protection and Firearms
Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:32 am


We ended up with a Taurus 9mm, 50 rounds and an extra clip. My brother in law picked it up because the price was so low, 100 bucks cheaper than the Ruger. The detailed report I read sounds like a good choice was made. I hope I never have to use it!

~Paul~
Becky & Paul Lawry
Dreamscape
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Re: Protection and Firearms
Sun May 31, 2009 7:22 am


I have been a pretty serious target shooter for muuch of the past 40 years, and know a lot of police offciers, and so speak from experience.If you are going to carry a firearm, either in the bus or on your eprson, make sure you become very familiar with both federal and state laws and with firearm stopping power and unintended penetration.

Here are just a FEW of the factors:

For stopping power, you need a LOT thse days. Many of the badguys are high on drugs (they are trying to rob you to get their next fix), and so can absorb low powered bullets without slowing down.

The absolute MINIMUM for a pistol round that will semi-relaibly stop a badguy intent on doing you harm is a 9mm. Even then, you need to realize that within each caliber, each manufacturer loads multiple levels of power and differing types of bullets. For stopping a badguy with a 9mm, you want a 115 grain hollow point bullet traveling at at least 1300 feet per second. Even this "strong" 9mm round will stop a bad guy only about 80% of the time. The other 20% of the time, you'll need to put more than one round into him. To put a numbe ron this round, it dumps about 427 ft lb of energy into the badguy.

Better, is a .357 Magnum revolver. This sends about 650 ft lb of energy into the guy, and has a stopping record in police incidents well in excess of 95% or so. It is however, a revolver round only (not a semiauto), and the recoil is sharp and wicked. TOO sharp and wicked to practice a lot with it.

A 45 auto is surprisingly no better than the 9mm, and in fact, worse than the 115 grain / 427 ft lb round described above. Its problem is that while it is larger diameter than the 9mm round and the 357 round (.45 versus .357), it tarvels too slow - only generally up to about 900 ft per second, so does not reliably put down a druggie.

The .40 S&W caliber (NO relationship to Smith and Wesson FIREARMS) is a watered down version of the very hardhitting original 10mm "FBI" caliber that the FBI abandoned after the diversity people complained that the recoil was too wicked for women and small sized men. The .40 S&W, while watered down, is still a very good round, far better than the 45 auto in actual police incidents, and the recoil is far more manageable. Its a pretty good choice if the extra bit of recoil over a hot 9mm is not a problem.

Anything smaller than 9mm is just going to get the assailant madder.

The big advantage of a handgun is its concealability on you IF you have a legal carry permit, and its concealability AND maneouverability inside a bus. You can put tritium night sites (glow in the dark) on most handguns so they become usable at night in almost pitch black. - if you can see the badguy, you will certainly see the sights.

The big DISadvantages of handguns is that they have puny stopping power compared to just about any rifle or shotgun of intelligent caliber, AND while shotguns and rifles are veiwed as sort of socially acceptable by the liberal politicians, handguns are a red flag to them and are fiercely regulated Federally AND DIFFERENTLY by each individual state within The Union, and even specifically by individual cities. This makes traveling with them a really good way to break the law, unless you reasearch the laws of EACH state and even each community before doing so. In Denver for example, having a firearm anywehre in the vehicle, even locked in a trunk is against the law!

Federal law provides one important protection. As a "freedom of interstate commerce" legal matter, Federal law ensures that you cannot be prosecuted by any state or local jurisdiciton if merely passing through an area ON A FEDERAL HIGHWAY. Once you get off theat highway though, or stop to visit friends or relatives, the law becomes murky.

For self defence inside a coach, rifles are too big and way too powerful. A rifle bullet from a 30-30 or ,223 or .308 will go clean through the bus wall and through your NEIGHBORING bus's wall as well. You might kill the badguy, but you might also kill your neighbor or anyone else in the area. You'll also deafen yourself and anyone else in the coach with the first round fired. The length of a rifle makes it hard to maneouver inside a bus, and easy fro your assailant to grab and lever against you at close quarters.

A shotgun is a pretty good idea. Get one that is 12 guage. Anything smaller is not strong enough, and a 10 gauge has the same over penetration problem as a rifle as well as vicious recoil. While OO shot is goingto be the best manstopper, it also penetrates bus walls. You might consider steeping down to the next size shot and having smaller but MORE projectiles than the 9 OO pellets in the OO shotshell. Get a 12 guage shotgun with the shortest legal barrel (18 inches) and a folding stock (legal again after the demise of the assault weapons ban), and you have a wicked manstopper that is maneouverable in a bus and is unlikely to kill your neighbor while killing your badguy. Naturally, the shotgun can NOT be carried for self protection outside the bus in most jurisdictions. (Don't laugh, in Wyoming and I think New Mexico and a few other states, open (unconcealed) carry of a handgun is not only legal but in some cases the ONLY legal way to carry one!).

Be sure to realize that in virtually every jurisdiction, open or concealed carry of a handgun requires either a resident permit or a reciprocity agreement between states that they recognize each other's permits. NOT ALL DO!!

Be sure also to realize that even if the hadngun is not upon your person, but rather in a glove comaprtment or even within a locked comaprtment, in some jurisdicions that is considered "concealed carry" and either requires a permit or is illegal period. This issue is right at the center of the famous Washington DC law case that just went to the Supreme court where DC lost and the individual won, and DC STILL won't allow what the Supreme Court has said they must.

The above is merely an intro to this weird subject of the legalities and stopping power and usability of firearms as self defence weapons by civilians. Be sure to buy a few books and maagazines, and visit a few target shooting ranges, and most improtant of all, get TRAINING before emabrking down this path.

Also, be atuned to the fine points of the law. In Texas for example, it is legal to shoot someone only if by doing so you can prevent or stop a felony (a crime for which the penalty is one year or more in prison). This means that if you see 2 gang members trying to set fire to your bus (arson IS a felony), you can shoot them, but ONLY if they have not yet lit the fire. If they have lit the fire, you have no right to shoot them, as that will not "undo" the arson. At thta point, you would merely be punishing them, not stopping them, and The Law insists that punishment is ITS perogative, not yours.

One final note: even if you have a frearm when you need it, and wound or dispatch the badguy because he is trying to KILL you, you WILL be sued by either him or his Mom, and even if you WIN (which you might not), it will cost you at least $50,000 to defend yourself. In court, the same doper who tried to kill you will be presented by his attorney as a role model high school student in his community because he has not yet dropped out AND attends almost an average of 3 days per week AND has only flunked 2 subjects - well above average for his neighborhood - and who deserves a break. YOU will be portrayed as Charles Manson. No kidding.

Some of us have despite all the above taken on the responsibility for self defence, because when the doper is 5 feet from you and charging you with a knife, calling 911 just isn't going to cut it. But, understand that in our crazy legal world, you take on some significant risks by doing so.
Jim Gnitecki
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Re: Protection and Firearms
Sun May 31, 2009 7:42 am


Eileen and I both have side arm's . I have a 9 mm and she has a 357 stubby , both are loaded and when we travel they are inthe bus, However I don't have one in the tube but that only takes a second to fix. and Eileen keeps her's with the empty cyl under the hammer. Anyway that's what we do. To each his own . ps we don't have any traveling grand kids.
Andy Wright 68 Silver Eagle Model 5 8V92 #7481
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